Traditional clothing versus global fashion:


- Should Europe tolerate or ban the burqa and other face-coverings?

- Bikini versus burkini: a clash of values or two different statements of fashion in an open society?

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I don't even know why that question is on this site. I think the debate that you are trying to start here is not the one that we should debate one. The real debate about this issue is whether we want an open society or not. I mean come on why do you care about what others are wearing at the beach or in the street ? We allow women (and any other gender by the way) to dress however they want when they are on the streeet or at the beach, even if it is very short or with almost no clothes. And that's great. This is freedom. And if anyone is bothered by how we are dressed, they can just look somewhere else. This is something that seems logical for us. Thus, why does it bother us to see women wearing burkini or burqa, as long as it is their own and only their own choice ? Ideas ? I'll tell you why. It bothers us because burqas and burkinis are related to religion, and especially to muslims. We can dress however we want, as long as we are dressed, they can too, as they have the same rights than we do. That's that simple. I have to admit I don't even understand why some people out there care about burkinis or burqas.

Votes: 52

1. Mixing "burkini" and burqa is a nonsense. Burkini is nothing but a covering bath suit that basically nobody really wants to prohibit in Europe. There were a couple of cases of municipalities attempting to prohibit it in France, but the national authorities promptly reminded them that such a prohibition would not be sustained by the law and the constitution. 2. The only piece of clothing that causes a problem is burqa (or other types of clothes covering the whole body including the face). Here also burqa should not be confused with other type of clothing (such as hijab, the "simple" islamic veil). Burqa is problematic because it totally isolates some citizens (especially women) from the outside world by covering not only the full body but also the face. It is therefore absolutely legitimate to open the debate about the ban of burqa in the public areas. 3. An argument that is given against the ban burqa is that it would go against the protection of religious freedom. Actually there are very few freedoms that are absolute and most of them can be limited by law (see European Convention of Human Rights). Without entering into details, let's just notice that the European Court of Human Rights has, at several occasions, validated limitations related to wearing religious clothing and especially several types of "veils". 4. Another argument that is given is the assumption that the women wearing burqa would generally do it "freely". This argument of freedom doesn't take into account the balance of power inside families and communities. It also doesn't take into account social pressures and similar aspects. Actually a lot of rules in our societies limit individual freedom for this type of reasons (let's think about the limitation of weekly working time that exists in Europe) 5. Finally, as the (rather strange) way you ask the question mentions a reference to "fashion" and "traditional clothing" it is important to remind here that burqa is in no way a "traditional clothing". Even in Afghanistan, nobody wore a burqa 30 years ago, the most covering piece of clothing existing at this time there was called a tchadri and didn't hide the hands nor the legs as the burqa does. The burqa as we know it today is actually a recent "heritage" of the most recent islamist movements (see the islamologist Olivier Roy, on this). 6. As a conclusion I would therefore say that the question of burqa is a political one and not a religious one and even less a fashion one. It is about the common ground of values that we need to build the possibility of living together. The ban of burqa in public space is, from this point of view perfectly legitimate and, from a pragmatic point of view, obviously needed.

Votes: 91

This debate is a waste of time as the question should not even be asked. Europe is based on freedom of conscience and expression. Baning whatever the burqa or any other covering thing is totally against human rights. This debate has no place as the roots of this issue is just based on intolerance. So the solution is to sensibilize people against the hatred and misconception about muslim womens and fight intolerance. They create a muslim problem and legislate around it, thus violating fundamental rights.

Votes: 107

Intolerance comes from a lack of assimilation. Once you meet people listen to their experiences and the values behind their beliefs you see them as human. Every Muslim woman I've met who wears a hijab or a burqa does so, yes for religious reasons but also to reflect their feminist values. But indeed before I met these women, before I left my little world I couldn't know this to be true. Our governments highlight the extremes of Islam but rarely the extremes of nationalism and conservatism. By banning the burqa you are banning religious expression; which would then be needed to parallel across all religious expression. All major religions have some concept of modesty, Christianity, Judaism are no different. The concept of modesty is indeed questionable, unconsciously pushing the aims of the patriarchy creating a sense of 'us and them'. The reason it is a highlighted constantly across the Muslim faith is the fear of 'the other' a fear peddled by neo-liberal European governments who don't see their lack of diversity, their foreign interventionism and economic prioritization as a possible root cause for extremism and hatred when individuals are so often left behind whodon't fit the bill of white, straight and male. We live in a world where identity politics is labelled as pettiness rather than us trying to see the importance of recognizing the individual and how we are different through an intersectional approach.

Votes: 115

Banning the burqa would be like banning the cross. The burqa is a religious piece of clothing, and banning it would not be fair. We need to be welcoming of all religions and therefore we can not ban the burqini.
Vote up!

Votes: 144

You voted ‘up’

To ban the Burqa and burkini is not secular therefore should not be implemented as a law. Banning the Burqa and burkini (which are said to be traditional religious garnments) is like banning the cross or another religious garnment or jewelry. It is not secular nor is it right. We must be a continent that stays secular, open, united and welcoming of all cultures.

Votes: 170

The debate here revolves around freedom of choice, imposing to wear or forbiding to wear some types of cloth. Does muslim women are forced to wear these outfit against their will ? The answer is generally not, contrary to the common belief. How can we make this safe affirmation? Because islam is not a religion of coercion but rather a religion of own will devotness as stated in the following verse: (2:256) "There is no compulsion in religion" (Arabic: la ikraha fi'd-din) This controversy emerge from a misunderstanding, an image of contradiction of the freedom of choice ideal, a core value of the EU. But irronicaly by endorsing this polemic some are doing the exact contrary of what they are allegedly standing for, namely defending the freedom of choice by forbiding these women to choose.

Votes: 176

The Burqa is in my opinion a symbol of oppression and a symbol of the salifistic islam. Dont forget that before the Islamic revolution in Iran nobody wore Burqas and not even Hijabs while it still was a Islamic country. On the other hand, the liberal inside of me says that people should be able to wear what they want. Banning the Burqini is idiotic in my opinion. Some European women wear bathing suits/wet suits while swimming and its almost the same.
Vote up!

Votes: 197

You voted ‘up’

In my opinion, the common project of all Europeans is freedom, which means choosing your own religion but also choosing your own clothes, and muslim women do not have a choice when being raised in Islam. Stop imposition. Respect choice above all.
Vote up!

Votes: 194

You voted ‘up’

Banning burqoa and burkini might lead to discrimination. If women feel more secure and free wearing it, then let them do it. We need to respect everyone and do not forbid people to wear what they want.

Votes: 188